SUA + SRP, some questions...
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SUA + SRP, some questions...
OK, I'm trying SUA + SRP for the first time on 7 32-bit. Two things I noticed are: 1) It's better to create the Standard account immediately after fresh install of Windows and 2) Put UAC at max setting.
I'm not sure if I got the above correct, but I see many apps I installed in the admin account aren't shown in the start menu and without UAC, "right click->Run as Administrator" is useless(i.e. does nothing).
But here is a question, How can I install certain apps like "VirusTotal Uploader"?
In this case, if I install it as Admin, it doesn't create the "send to" shortcut for Standard account, if I install it normally it can't copy it's files to "Program Files" folder. So what's the solution?
I'm not sure if I got the above correct, but I see many apps I installed in the admin account aren't shown in the start menu and without UAC, "right click->Run as Administrator" is useless(i.e. does nothing).
But here is a question, How can I install certain apps like "VirusTotal Uploader"?
In this case, if I install it as Admin, it doesn't create the "send to" shortcut for Standard account, if I install it normally it can't copy it's files to "Program Files" folder. So what's the solution?
Sadeghi85- Member
- Posts : 66
Join date : 2010-07-22
Re: SUA + SRP, some questions...
What sort of programs are you not seeing in the start menu? They are likely to be old or poorly written programs. All programs should be written to function well/normally in a limited user account by now.
I don't understand what exactly is the problem with the installation of "VirusTotal Uploader" - the only way I'll be able to help is to install Windows 7 in my VM and try reproducing your issues by installing "VirusTotal Uploader" myself. I'll try getting on to it in the next few days. Perhaps someone else will have resolved your issue by then. It would be galling if a program like "VirusTotal Uploader" doesn't function smoothly in a limited user account.
Anyway, please do a bump if I forget.
I don't understand what exactly is the problem with the installation of "VirusTotal Uploader" - the only way I'll be able to help is to install Windows 7 in my VM and try reproducing your issues by installing "VirusTotal Uploader" myself. I'll try getting on to it in the next few days. Perhaps someone else will have resolved your issue by then. It would be galling if a program like "VirusTotal Uploader" doesn't function smoothly in a limited user account.
Anyway, please do a bump if I forget.
Re: SUA + SRP, some questions...
They are likely to be old or poorly written programs.
Yes, certainly poorly written programs. I also see some apps don't work correctly without Admin permissions for various reasons. An example is Speccy from Piriform, it needs to write cpu-z driver in the temp folder which SRP will block it if run with SUA permissions.
Anyway "VirusTotal Uploader" issue is solved by first installing as Admin and then another time as Standard user. Problem is, I had to white-list a folder in SRP so I could copy the installer and execute it there, not sure if it's the right thing to do? Plus, there might be some other apps that don't install correctly even by this way...
Sadeghi85- Member
- Posts : 66
Join date : 2010-07-22
Re: SUA + SRP, some questions...
I was able to fix the VirusTotal Uploader issue by installing as Admin and then copying the 'VirusTotal' shortcut from Users\<Admin>\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Windows\SendTo to Users\<User>\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Windows\SendTo. I don't know if that is a better or worse solution than yours, but it worked for me.
Senraeth- New Member
- Posts : 2
Join date : 2010-07-30
Re: SUA + SRP, some questions...
Thanks. It's a bit annoying though, that a lot of apps still don't function properly with LUA.
Sadeghi85- Member
- Posts : 66
Join date : 2010-07-22
Re: SUA + SRP, some questions...
Sadeghi85 wrote:Thanks. It's a bit annoying though, that a lot of apps still don't function properly with LUA.
Perhaps you are just unlucky. The only application I use that doesn't function in my LUA is Starcraft 1 haha. I get around this easily by using SuRun - in my LUA, it automatically launches "starcraft.exe" as admin when it's run. No pop-ups are generated at all and therefore it's very convenient. Of course, "starcraft.exe" connects to the internet for online play and therefore is a potential malware threat-gate. This is why I also force run "starcraft.exe" in a sandbox (with Sandboxie) with relevant restrictions. It's been working flawlessly for over 6 months.
I suspect one wouldn't need to use SuRun to run Starcraft 1 on Windows 7 in a SUA. However, I think there'll always be a UAC pop-up (or you'll always need to manually run it as admin) whenever you run "starcraft.exe".
By the way, the developer has just released Surun 1.2.0.9 Beta 13. As far as I can tell, version 1.2.0.9 is being developed to become (more) compatible with Windows 7. I've been running version 1.2.0.8 on Windows XP flawlessly for over 6 months.
Re: SUA + SRP, some questions...
SuRun is excellent
I had to delete the SUA account and recreate it to successfully turn off UAC. No need for that SRP white-list folder either. Everything is solved by SuRun, thanks.
I had to delete the SUA account and recreate it to successfully turn off UAC. No need for that SRP white-list folder either. Everything is solved by SuRun, thanks.
Sadeghi85- Member
- Posts : 66
Join date : 2010-07-22
Re: SUA + SRP, some questions...
SuRun is excellent for Windows XP, but I'm not sure if it's so good on Windows 7 (yet). Just noticed on the SuRun forum that you've posted a whole lot of issues with the latest Beta on Windows 7. Good luck with those. I may test it out myself again in the near future and see if I can reproduce your issues.
And unfortunately, that forum isn't very active at all, as the developer must "have a life" haha. There was a period of about 3-4 months (earlier this year) where he disappeared.
And unfortunately, that forum isn't very active at all, as the developer must "have a life" haha. There was a period of about 3-4 months (earlier this year) where he disappeared.
Re: SUA + SRP, some questions...
ssj100 wrote:SuRun is excellent for Windows XP, but I'm not sure if it's so good on Windows 7 (yet). Just noticed on the SuRun forum that you've posted a whole lot of issues with the latest Beta on Windows 7. Good luck with those. I may test it out myself again in the near future and see if I can reproduce your issues.
Yeah, I spoke a little too soon. Still, it's a lot better than using UAC imo.
Sadeghi85- Member
- Posts : 66
Join date : 2010-07-22
Re: SUA + SRP, some questions...
UAC is not a real security solution FYI, it is not equal in protection as LUA. The way its implemented renders it easily bypassable by deliberate actions of malware when compared to LUA.
Rico- Advanced Member
- Posts : 118
Join date : 2010-06-18
Re: SUA + SRP, some questions...
Well, I'm not comparing UAC with LUA, I was comparing UAC+LUA+SRP vs SuRun+LUA+SRP
Sadeghi85- Member
- Posts : 66
Join date : 2010-07-22
Re: SUA + SRP, some questions...
OK, I decided to use both UAC & SuRun. Whatever doesn't work with SuRun, will work with UAC.
The only exception so far is Everything which doesn't even start at startup if UAC is enabled, but that's not a problem at all as I pinned it to start menu, when I need it I'll launch it, it will stay at tray till next restart.
The only exception so far is Everything which doesn't even start at startup if UAC is enabled, but that's not a problem at all as I pinned it to start menu, when I need it I'll launch it, it will stay at tray till next restart.
Sadeghi85- Member
- Posts : 66
Join date : 2010-07-22
Re: SUA + SRP, some questions...
Kay replied to my thread at SuRun forum, now I can use some of those apps without UAC.
Sadeghi85- Member
- Posts : 66
Join date : 2010-07-22
Re: SUA + SRP, some questions...
UPDATE:
I installed a fresh copy of Windows 7 and immediately installed SuRun and created the standard account. Installed all the programs with SuRun and most of the problems I wrote about in the first post and on SuRun forum are solved.
Let's look at the examples I gave above and on SuRun forum:
VirusTotal Uploader: It only creates its shortcuts for current user account, a lot of other programs do the same, but installing them with SuRun fixes the problem because SuRun will elevate the privileges for the CURRENT user account.
Flashget: It gave me this error:
Kay's solution was to change folder permissions for "C:\Program Files\Flashget", it worked, but in this new Windows installation I noticed Flashget works without any change in folder permissions, after a little look here and there I found why: UAC Virtualization
For some reason it wasn't enabled for Flashget on that Windows installation, don't know why.
Good thing is, it can be enabled in Task Manager
Event Viewer shows what Flaghget tried to do:
Gmail Notifier: I found out that the way GN stores the credential is the problem and it had nothing to do with LUA or SuRun, after some searching I noticed that Google Talk is regarded as the better alternative to GN.
Everything: In the next post I'll explain how to create elevated startup shortcuts.
MrBrian explained in this post the problems that happens while using LUA.
There is also Aaron Margosis' blog: Fixing "LUA bugs", Part I & Fixing "LUA Bugs", Part II
As you see above SuRun is perfect neither of those problems had anything to do with SuRun.
I installed a fresh copy of Windows 7 and immediately installed SuRun and created the standard account. Installed all the programs with SuRun and most of the problems I wrote about in the first post and on SuRun forum are solved.
Let's look at the examples I gave above and on SuRun forum:
VirusTotal Uploader: It only creates its shortcuts for current user account, a lot of other programs do the same, but installing them with SuRun fixes the problem because SuRun will elevate the privileges for the CURRENT user account.
Flashget: It gave me this error:
Kay's solution was to change folder permissions for "C:\Program Files\Flashget", it worked, but in this new Windows installation I noticed Flashget works without any change in folder permissions, after a little look here and there I found why: UAC Virtualization
For some reason it wasn't enabled for Flashget on that Windows installation, don't know why.
Good thing is, it can be enabled in Task Manager
Event Viewer shows what Flaghget tried to do:
Gmail Notifier: I found out that the way GN stores the credential is the problem and it had nothing to do with LUA or SuRun, after some searching I noticed that Google Talk is regarded as the better alternative to GN.
Everything: In the next post I'll explain how to create elevated startup shortcuts.
MrBrian explained in this post the problems that happens while using LUA.
As I said above I found out that some of those problems will be solved by creating the LUA account right after Windows installation and installing all the programs with SuRun. I found another way to avoid UAC prompts and will explain it in the next post.
1) Some software doesn't work properly. Manual intervention can sometimes salvage the situation. For example, see Flash not working with SRP.
2) If you use a program in two different accounts, you'll usually need to configure the program's settings separately in each account.
3) Switching between different accounts can be a hassle.
4) Some software installs its menu shortcut in the current account only, and thus there is no shortcut to start the program within other accounts. This can be remedied manually.
5) If you want to elevate a program using UAC within a LUA, you normally need to supply a password each time, unless you use techniques such as those hightlighted at Avoid UAC prompts by using an elevated program launcher.
6) If you want to share program data, such as browser favorites, amongst different accounts, you won't be able to use default settings, which would typically result in each account having its own program data. I use a separate data partition, and store my data there, for read/write access by either my admin account or my LUA.
There is also Aaron Margosis' blog: Fixing "LUA bugs", Part I & Fixing "LUA Bugs", Part II
ssj100 wrote:SuRun is excellent for Windows XP, but I'm not sure if it's so good on Windows 7 (yet). Just noticed on the SuRun forum that you've posted a whole lot of issues with the latest Beta on Windows 7. Good luck with those.
As you see above SuRun is perfect neither of those problems had anything to do with SuRun.
Sadeghi85- Member
- Posts : 66
Join date : 2010-07-22
Re: SUA + SRP, some questions...
I found out why UAC Virtualization wasn't enabled for Flashget and Everything, that was when I wanted to only use SuRun and turned UAC off.
This is another benefit of UAC. If I want to only use SuRun I'll have to change folder permissions which isn't a good idea.
I thought I found a way to create elevated startup shortcuts without using a 3rd party software but that didn't work, however using SuRun it's easy to do. In case of Everything the startup shortcut target needs to be changed from
This is another benefit of UAC. If I want to only use SuRun I'll have to change folder permissions which isn't a good idea.
I thought I found a way to create elevated startup shortcuts without using a 3rd party software but that didn't work, however using SuRun it's easy to do. In case of Everything the startup shortcut target needs to be changed from
- Code:
"C:\Program Files\Everything\Everything.exe" -startup
- Code:
C:\Windows\SuRun.exe "C:\Program Files\Everything\Everything.exe" -startup
Sadeghi85- Member
- Posts : 66
Join date : 2010-07-22
Re: SUA + SRP, some questions...
Hi Sadeghi85, not sure if you're aware, but SuRun 1.2.0.9 Final has been released after spending over 1 year in Beta!
Download
More information and changelog here (once you go to the link, translate the page to English and then click on the "Download" section):
http://kay-bruns.de/wp/software/surun/
Personally, I'm probably not going to update it, since most of the changes are related to Windows Vista/7 and I'm still happily running XP.
Download
More information and changelog here (once you go to the link, translate the page to English and then click on the "Download" section):
http://kay-bruns.de/wp/software/surun/
Personally, I'm probably not going to update it, since most of the changes are related to Windows Vista/7 and I'm still happily running XP.
Re: SUA + SRP, some questions...
Thank you very much for the heads up, SSJ. I've been using SuRun betas ever since you've introduced me to this awesome app! Updated to final.
Sadeghi85- Member
- Posts : 66
Join date : 2010-07-22
Re: SUA + SRP, some questions...
No problem Sadeghi85. I changed my mind and updated to 1.2.0.9 on my Windows XP system. All went smoothly.
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